why I don't play with people who are cheating

[snugglekitty]

So, recently I've been solicited for various kinds of play by a number of people who are married or otherwise monogamous and feel that their partners don't have to know. In one case, I was a little bit tempted*, but still said no. Why? I'm so glad you asked. Here is a quick list of reasons why I don't play with the monogamously involved sort.



1) It's bad karma. I mean this in both the sense of "this is bad energy that I do not wish to have in my life/energy system" and "his wife could show up with a baseball bat at my house."
2) People who are cheating are hurting someone that they claim to care about. This could mean one of three things: a) they are not perceptive enough to realize that this is bound to end in trouble or b) avoiding harm to people they care about is not a priority or c) they don't really care about this person but continue to pretend to, for some reason. None of these traits are attractive to me. It also almost definitely means that even if they came to care about me, the chances of them hurting me would remain nontrivial.
3) If they are capable of lying to their loved ones, they are also capable of lying to me. I really hate being lied to. Just not worth it.
4) No drama llama! No drama! Cheating is an intense source of interpersonal drama, and I am drama avoidant.
5) I know people leave people for all kinds of reasons all the time. But the prospect of being left immediately with no warning because the person feels they can no longer do this to their wife anymore and wants to regain their sense of themselves as an ethical person, or because their partner found out, seems like a ticking time bomb.
6) I don't want to cause breakups to third parties. Nor do I want anyone sleeping on my couch because her boyfriend kicked her out because he found out she was fucking me. I know I would feel obligated and guilty and it would still be a terrible idea. No thanks.
7) And more generally, I've been the only one who didn't know before. I didn't like it at all, wouldn't wish it on people I've never met and who are probably very decent human beings, and don't want to be part of it happening if I can help it.
8) I'm poly. How can I tell people that poly is different from cheating if I help others cheat? Well, I can't, not without being a big hypocrite.
9) I don't like being someone's secret, even if they're not breaking any promises. I value honesty and openness in my partners.
10) It's hard work to maintain a good relationship with someone who's primary is someone else, even if they know and consent. How much harder would it be to have a relationship where they DIDN'T know and consent?
11) It doesn't feel good to lie to someone you care for. I don't want to help anyone that I care for or feel I could care for experience that feeling. And if I didn't feel I could care for them, then why bother?



I could go on, but that's fairly comprehensive. Any comments?

*It would have been a service relationship, without sex and possibly without play, and that almost wasn't enough to ping my alarms... but eventually I had to say, talk to me again once you've talked to your wife.

Comments

[arachne8x.livejournal.com]

I am glad that you feel this way. Its very important for people who are poly to respect the fact that monogamous people who are looking for sex or similar acts with others are cheating. And its clear that you understand that the problem is deception, not the sex really, which can be a problem in poly relationships too. Thanks for being an excellent example of a responsible polyamorist.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

Its very important for people who are poly to respect the fact that monogamous people who are looking for sex or similar acts with others are cheating.

I agree. In my opinion, it is part of understanding and respecting the choices of others, which include monogamy.

And its clear that you understand that the problem is deception, not the sex really, which can be a problem in poly relationships too.

Yup. Cheating means "to seem, and not to be," which is why poly is not cheating. I would feel just as betrayed to find out that, say, my partner was actually a conservative Republican pretending to be liberal, as to discover they were married and never did so.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

Er. "married and never said so."

[pinkdom.livejournal.com]

There is a cosmic ick-factor to playing with people who are cheating that I had never fully considered. I agree with everything you say, especially #4.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

Hi there! :) I'm glad you like what I wrote. I have friended you back and you should be able to see more posts now.

[notpiecebypiece.livejournal.com]

#11 is a very good point I'd not thought of before. On the spectrum of unethical I've always thought it's much more unethical to do the cheating than to be the person the cheater is cheating with, but a) I suppose it doesn't matter which action is "more" unethical anyway, and b) as you point out, if you care about someone in any way, why the fuck would you want to want to HELP him/her do something that's only bad for him/her?

I think cheaters are unattractive because they're boring. You just pulled the oldest trick in history, congrats, that must have taken a lot of courage and intelligence.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

I think cheaters are unattractive because they're boring. You just pulled the oldest trick in history, congrats, that must have taken a lot of courage and intelligence.

Ha! That's a good point. Cheating is not sexy.

[purplepathos.livejournal.com]

You hit the nail on the head with this one. I'm with you on every point.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

Thank you! *preens*

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said here. I've been a cheater before, and I'd never do it again--it never works out well. I'm glad that I've learned a lot about communication since then, a lot of which is thanks to excellent poly folks like you.

Another thought is that a cheater is, at heart, not trustworthy, because that person is betraying someone else--you wouldn't want to get involved in any sort of relationship with a cheater, especially a relationship with play/service/other activity that relies on some level of trust.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

Another thought is that a cheater is, at heart, not trustworthy, because that person is betraying someone else--you wouldn't want to get involved in any sort of relationship with a cheater, especially a relationship with play/service/other activity that relies on some level of trust.

Indeed. I had that as an item at one point but thought perhaps it was too redundant with other items.

[boy-wonderwolf.livejournal.com]

Even when the other spouse knows but wants to act like he/she doesn't, I have a hard time with it. I need there be a certain level of openness. They might not want to hear all the details but I don't want them to be offended if something does come up in conversation.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

(Nice icon.)

Good point. If the agreement involves not meeting me, or pretending that the whole thing isn't going on, to me that does not feel functionally different from cheating.

[(Anonymous)]

Clearly, carefully considered and very well-articulated.. thank you so much for making this post public.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

You're very welcome! I'm sure you can see, I don't write a ton of public posts, but every once in a while something seems to merit wide availability. This seemed like one of those times.

[clonetwin.livejournal.com]

Yup, yup, yup.

[katkt.livejournal.com]

I agree with the other feedback you've gotten here. It's all good to know and to say and cheating is *really* sucky.

What follows is musing and most definitely *not* intended to be a criticism of what you've done - but perhaps musing on something you may (or may not) want to do as well.

There is a lot of overlap and commonality in your list of reasons, and I think that if you distill the list out into the 2 or 3 underlying principles, it might be revealing - and might help you (and/or other people) understand better. 1,2,3,7, and 11 (and maybe 4?) all seem to be more or less the same underlying reason, and finding a way to articulate it as such - without losing the nuance of your 6 different points - could be clarifying - both about your objections in this particular case and about your attitudes toward relationships and responsibility in general. [ 5,8,9, and 10 also seem interdependent ]

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that's a good point. :) I think you're right - I think that dividing it into categories and using the reasons I list as examples of things falling into those categories could be interesting and useful.

I won't do it now, but I might do it later.