a question for the class

[snugglekitty]

"Once you become a denizen of Freak, your citizenship in Normal is revoked." - Raven's Boy

True or False?

Discuss.

Comments

[woodwardiocom.livejournal.com]

Eh, I disagree. I can be normal, I can be freaky, I can be accepted by the normals, I can be accepted by the freaks.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

How are we defining Freak? Knowing you, you've left it open because you want to see how others will interpret it. Okay. I'm going to say that Freak designates one as a member of some subculture, while Normal refers to a suburban, cheerleader and soccer mom, SUV-driving ideal.

If we say that these are two distinct groups, then I personally can pass as either one. I identify more as a Freak (although, actually, I would describe myself as a Nerd, which has entirely different connotations), but there are things about Normal life that appeal to me very much.

But on the whole, I don't believe in Normal. If people were made with cookie cutters, Normal would happen and Freaks would be obvious misshapen cookies without legs. But people are not as simple to make as cookies, so every person is different, and every person feels alienated and whatnot. It's the person's expression of her feelings that marks her as belonging to one group or another. Change how she expresses herself, and she gains acceptance to a different social circle. This is obviously easier for some people to do than others, depending on social skills and appearance (sadly), but it's certainly possible. Overall I think citizenship in Freak v. Normal is secondary to citizenship in Human, which transcends those boundaries.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

How are we defining Freak? Knowing you, you've left it open because you want to see how others will interpret it. Okay.

Actually, no. :) In this case, it is open not because I want to see how others will interpret it, but because I was not the one who said the thing in the first place. From what I remember, Raven's Boy was talking about spiritual difference. The way that hermits used to live out in deserted places, because the kinds of spiritual knowledge they had meant that they could no longer fit in with ordinary society. Does that make sense?

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

It does make sense, but that's not at all what one would think he meant by saying Freak and Normal. If a person reaches a deeper level of spiritual understanding, then yes, I would say that person is set apart from others, and other people will perceive the difference. And yes, reaching a deeper level of spirituality is kind of like Eve eating the apple--once you've done it, you know more and you can't go back to what you were.

But I think to use the labels Freak and Normal here is not really appropriate or applicable. In fact, I disagree really seriously with calling that spiritually enlightened person a Freak. That borders on offensive to me. Freak and Normal for me are social constructions that should have no bearing on the spiritual person. Yeah, some unenlightened creep might meet the spiritual person and, not understanding and being afraid of what he doesn't understand, might call the person a Freak. But I don't need to lower myself to that level.

Wow, weird conversation here. I am surprised at how strongly I reacted to this.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

Interesting reaction. Thanks for sharing your feelings honestly.

I think that part of where Raven's Boy was coming from is the idea that people whom the gods talk to, many will think are crazy. I mean, in this time and culture, if you think God talks to you, in a more than metaphorical way, your nearest and dearest may very likely check you into an institution, and not let you out until you claim the voices stop.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

I think it's like weighing your your apples in ounces and pounds when you're in Europe and should be using the metric system. He's trying to apply labels from a social/society thing to a spiritual thing, which for me is measured entirely differently.

Of course, I've only seen one line of whatever it was he said; it could be that I'd agree completely with him were I privy to the whole conversation. :)

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

To specify, I don't disagree with what you've paraphrased him as saying: spiritually touched people are set apart, institutionalized, etc. I disagree with the labels put on it.

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

I understand where you're coming from. I don't know if it would matter to you that he considers himself to be in the Freak category.

I think we could apply much of this conversation to other areas. For example, I'm pretty sure that most of the people who are reading this do not feel that have multiple relationships or same-sex relationships makes you a freak, but society at large would still see it that way. I think that most of the point of the conversation was that once you've had certain experiences and gained certain understandings, it can't be undone, and the rest of the world will see you differently, as you suggest in your first comment.

[supercheesegirl.livejournal.com]

Hee, I can't imagine anyone who identified as "Normal" making such an assertion! :)

[goat.livejournal.com]

Hmm, my understanding is that spiritually enlightened people who hermit themselves don't do it because they no longer fit in, rather so they can fully devote themselves to their spiritual practice.

in any case, I can fit in well enough with normal people. They know I'm a little strange, and generally don't care.

[artemis44.livejournal.com]

Quick answer is that I've either got a dual-citizenship, or I just pass awfully well...

Longer answer probably involves some navel-gazing about how I have been varying percentages of freak/normal, and how that's evolved over time, and how at one time I could never have imagined just how normal and "tame" my life would ever look - and how glad I am that I still have my piercings to remind me of who I used to be (and still am?)

ahhh, but who has time for longer answers!?! :)

Interesting question, though...

[teratomarty.livejournal.com]

Absolutely true. You can walk around in Normal as long as you pass well and know the shibboleth, but if anyone asks to see your papers, you're screwed.

[coraline]

i think it depends on whether you've found your new permanent home in Freak, or whether you truely want to have dual citizenship. i would say pisicutsa is a great example of someone who holds dual citizenship (but i agree, most people who find their way to Freak then renounce their citizenship in Normal, then then yes, the documentation becomes a problem...)

[pisicutsa.livejournal.com]

Aww... *snif* I have dual citizenship. Yay! *HUGS*

Expansion

[gurl1776.livejournal.com]

Somewherez I read: Once your mind expands to accept a concept, it can never return to its original position.

Being a freak is more than being able to pass. More than having a tattoo / piercing / or counter culture "look". I think what makes someone a freak is their ability to think differently. To challenge their physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual limitations. (the ability to challenge limitations.)

Being a freak can be thinking outside the box, while in the box, while try to deconstruct the box.

Being a freak is creating a self-manifesto which is not always easily transferable or describable. Which ain't always fulfilling or safe. And godz but I hate when folks say it ain't the destination, but the journey. B*LLSH*T. It is about reaching the objective.

The objective? To become authentic. To have a direction connection to the core of your being / purpose / life.

etc.

Re: Expansion

[lady-anemone.livejournal.com]

I like what you wrote here about freakiness being more than looking like you fit in with other freaks. I think that, for me, a "freaky" mindset might be one that is not only ABLE to think differently, but HAS to think differently. For example, once you know about trans issues, it becomes impossible to go back to thinking that man/male and woman/female are mutually exclusive categories, and never the twain shall meet...

I think that the dividing line for me is fully believing something to be false that most people would never question our culture's official position on.

Re: Expansion

[gurl1776.livejournal.com]

"fully believing something to be false that most people would never question"

Yes. yes. yes. (or something to be true!) Trans is a really great example. I remember the first time I actually 'noticed' gender fluctuation in someone else. Mind expanded. Realized some people are / most people are / all people are.... then holy shit! I might be too!

Sooo there is a point where viewing outer possibilities, turns inwards.... and then 'I' myself do become different.... through examination / applying what I learned.... and then I go from being 'normal' in my 'normal' steady state... to becoming freak-i-fried and crisp.
=======================
*_really_* like your definition.

[catya.livejournal.com]

Hm. I can pass, but I'm not sure that means i have a citizenship. Then again, i'm unaware of "becoming" a freak.

[sunspiral.livejournal.com]

I disagree. Some (with varying degrees of effort) can pass in both realms.